To Build an Action Hero

[Laslo Hollyfeld]

Tobey Maguire is about as tough as Frankie Muniez. Muniez has the advantage of at least having gone through puberty.

[The Movie Mark]

laslohollyfeld said:

Tobey Maguire is about as tough as Frankie Muniez. Muniez has the advantage of at least having gone through puberty.

He did? Must've missed it.

Oh, one more note - "cute" and "dorky" are two adjectives I simply prefer NOT to be associated with my action heroes.

[Laslo Hollyfeld]

Well, Muniez's voice at least dropped. Maybe that was the only distinguishable occurence.

[nikkibluejeans]

I must admit, I was the most anti-Maguire kitty on the planet before I saw Spider-Man. He was one of those man-children that I so despise. And I love the artsy-fartsy stuff - but never anything he was in. The last thing I was so unfortunate to see him in was The Cider House Rules. And - it SO didn't.

Anyway, I went into Spider-Man with my aforementioned low expectations, and had no hope whatsoever to buy Maguire as Parker/S-Man or even enjoy myself for that matter. But by about half-way in, I was one smitten kitten.

I saw that the man-child was capable of bulking up, and that was enough evidence of testosterone to get me hooked. I went through a major Tobey phase after that (in spite of that ridiculous spelling of his name). It has subsided now, but he really sold me on that character (probably the only character I'll ever like him as). It was actually "James Dean" Franco who came off as the one-dimensional pretty boy/whiny girl in those movies. I look forward to seeing him become a villain in the next one, though. That may add the edge that could win me over...

But I think that comparing "Tobes" to Frankie Muniz is a little harsh. If you were talking about pre- Spider-Man Tobey - or post- Spider-Man III Tobey (after the muscle-tone is gone and he's back to his pasty, artsy self) - I would definitely agree that he should watch out for any hot-tempered 11-year-olds.

I submit: Dennis Quaid as another charisma donor for our hero - mostly for his portrayal of Lt. Tuck Pendleton in Innerspace. ;D

[Laslo Hollyfeld]

I thought the Spider Man muscles were CGI. Either that, or the result of spending long hours sweating at the gym with his "friend" Leonardo DiCaprio...

[FieryMaid]

No, Maguire ate lots of tofu and spent several hours daily in the gym (I don't care to know who with, thank you) -- I agree with NBJ, he looked good and Franco WAS an annoying sissy whiny boy.

JB, Spiderman in the movies was a TEENAGER. I would hope you, a grown man, would be able to take him -- but I don't think your 11 yr old cousin could have taken the bulked up Maguire. Sorry. NJB is right, after Maguire stopped working out, sure your cousin could probably have a chance, but not as he was in Spiderman.

I'm okay with my YOUNG and INEXPIRENCED heros being cute and dorky (first few years of Smallville, anyone?). Obviously they need to NOT be that later in life (Batman Begins, oh Yeah! I'm SO looking forward to the sequel!).

[The Movie Mark]

fierymaid said:

No, Maguire ate lots of tofu and spent several hours daily in the gym

Real men don't eat tofu. Real men eat steak and potatoes.

fierymaid said:

he looked good and Franco WAS an annoying sissy whiny boy.

No he wasn't. He was mad that Cleft Lip Maguire murdered his dad. It's understandable.

fierymaid said:

JB, Spiderman in the movies was a TEENAGER. I would hope you, a grown man, would be able to take him

Here's the problem with that argument - Tobey Maguire and I ARE THE SAME AGE! Maguire was 27 in the 1st Spider-Man. Being a 27 year old who looks 16 is not a feather in any man's cap.

The fact that he looks closer in age to my 11 year old brother than he does to me is sad.

fierymaid said:

but I don't think your 11 yr old cousin [sic] could have taken the bulked up Maguire.

So you ladies define "bulked up" as jumping from 140 to 155 pounds?

fierymaid said:

I'm okay with my YOUNG and INEXPIRENCED heros being cute and dorky (first few years of Smallville, anyone?). Obviously they need to NOT be that later in life (Batman Begins, oh Yeah! I'm SO looking forward to the sequel!).

Christian Bale is only one year older than Tobey Maguire. Therefore, Maguire IS like that later in life. Case closed.

[FieryMaid]

Your opinion. Personally, I like steak, potatoes, and tofu.

Spiderman didn't murder Osborne's murderous dad. Technically, the Green Goblin commited suicide. And Franco was whining long before his dad died.

I'm going by LOOKS, not actual age here, JB. Maguire looked like and played a teenager. As such, I was happy with his look and performance. Maybe it's not that flattering to the male psyche that someone close to 30 looks like a teenager -- but other males will be jealous when that 60 yr old looks 30. Tom Welling IS 30 and is playing a 19yr old Clark Kent. I don't care what their real age is -- as long as they look their part. I do agree with NJB though, that when an actor (Wood), looks 12, he shouldn't be in parts that are young adult characters.

"Bulked up" doesn't refer to weight. I have no idea how much muscle weight was added, and I don't care. I only care what the weight looks like. Maguire had muscularly defined arms, chest, and stomach -- and that's what I like. Diesel & Swartzenegger are a bit more muscular than I like while Gibson, Steven Straight, and Maguire in Spiderman fit my taste much better.

Don't care that Bale and Maguire are about the same age. Bale is playing late 20s to early 30s Batman. Maguire is playing a teenager to early 20s Spiderman. See the difference?

[nikkibluejeans]

I thought the Spider Man muscles were CGI.

Funny you should mention that, Laslo, because they actually had to CGI or body-double the weak Peter Parker - when he's sick from the spider-bite, you see his pipsqueaky chest. That was the fake part.

A little movie trivia for you - that just so happens to discredit your original oh-so-witty remark.

That's right, kids, the gloves are off!!

I agree with FieryMaid wholeheartedly. She's very effectively arguing her case, so I don't actually need to add much to it.

In fact, methinks the softball champ protests too much. Maybe, deep down, JB wants to acknowledge a job well done by Tobes, not only for his believable performance, but also for being able to bulk up on the seemingly "sissy" sustenance of tofu. Hmmmm???

[The Movie Mark]

fierymaid said:

Your opinion. Personally, I like steak, potatoes, and tofu.

I still refuse to believe that the "sustenance" of tofu had anything to do with his bulking up. If y'all lay claim to that then I guess we have to give credit to tofu for fattening him up:

www.justjared.com/gossip/2006/08/leo-tobey-beach-pictures/

The man has no muscle tone, which leads me to believe that Laslo's CGI muscles theory might actually be accurate.

fierymaid said:

And Franco was whining long before his dad died.

I've figured it out - you gals are thrown off by the fact that Franco is the only one showing actual emotion in the movie.

Since we get none from Tobey or Skeletor Dunst (and especially none from their extreme LACK of chemistry) y'all just didn't know how to react to somebody demonstrating some real acting chops.

It's OK, I'll excuse it this time.

fierymaid said:

I'm going by LOOKS, not actual age here, JB. Maguire looked like and played a teenager.

Maybe they should've called the movie Spider-Boy or Spider-Teen rather than Spider-Man.

I think Tobey would've been better-suited to play Robin - you can construe that however you like.

fierymaid said:

I do agree with NJB though, that when an actor (Wood), looks 12, he shouldn't be in parts that are young adult characters.

Early-20s constitutes a young adult, and since Tobey doesn't look like he's aged since the first movie then I'd say he fits the above description perfectly.

fierymaid said:

Don't care that Bale and Maguire are about the same age. Bale is playing late 20s to early 30s Batman. Maguire is playing a teenager to early 20s Spiderman. See the difference?

Yes, but I still have a problem with a superhero who's supposed to be in his early-20s but still looks like he's 16, is shorter than most women, and whose voice indicates he has yet to reach puberty.

The age doesn't matter to me. Regardless of how young the character is, a superhero should still possess a certain amount of intimidation.

Tobey's got none. OK, y'all like his goofy smile, his dorky ways, and his expressionless, bug-eyed stares as he obsesses over Mary Jane.

I, on the other hand, prefer charisma and someone with a little edge. A difference in opinion, I guess.

Tom Welling as Clark Kent is a good example. Even though he's playing a teenager (or was), he still at least looks like a strong enough farm boy who could handle himself in a fight, and he's believable as the "bad Clark" whenever he's exposed to the red kryptonite.

You can bulk Tobey up all you want, but that doesn't dismiss his greasy nerd-cut or his Elijah Wood face.

[Laslo Hollyfeld]

Besides, we're talking about an action hero here. I'm sorry, but I will never see Tobey Maguire in the same league as Clint Eastwood or Steve McQueen or Harrison Ford. No amount of costuming and CGI can ever be a replacement for a steely-eyed glare and a hefty dose of grit.

And, before you bring up the whole Christian Bale thing, I might remind everyone that the whole point of this thread (and the article that spawned it) was the lack of great AMERICAN hero-types in film these days.

[FieryMaid]

Thanks, NBJ for the vote of confidence, but you are more than welcome to join in.

LH, I wholeheartedly agree that Tobey Maguire is not an action hero -- certainly not Eastwood or Ford. BUT, JB, I agree with NBJ that he was a good Spiderman and he looked nicely muscular. Spiderman is not Batman or Superman -- he's a dorky nerd while they aren't (well, exception on Superman's alter ego......). And in the movies, he's a teenager to early 20s. He's believable as that. He did a good job with the part. I perfered his more mascline way of handling sorrow -- mopey and tear-stained as to weepy, whiny with a constipated look that Franco has/does in Spiderman, Tristan and Isolde, and Annapolis. I'm sorry, that's a MAJOR turn off to most of us women. We like men to cry strongly, NOT pathetically. Prime example: Welling when Clark's dad died. Now THAT was well done. Masculine grieving at its best. Welling's not an awesome actor, but he has seriously gotten better over the years -- similar to Will Smith -- and that entire episode's sorrow was well acted.

Men with edge -- yes, I like those. But I also like the genuinely good, nice guy too. Typically speaking, Superman and Spiderman were those genuinely good, nice guys. Spiderman was always goofy -- goofy lines and jokes as he caught bad guys. Batman -- major dark edge (in the Dark Knight, anyway). Smallville's Superman is a reinvention -- hence he's less confident, less pure, more edgy (and apparently more genuinely stupid and cowardly). Generally speaking, Spiderman was more brain over brawn, Superman definately brawn over brain, and Batman a nice blending of brain and brawn. I think your major problem is that you are trying to compare different characters personalities to each other and it doesn't work.

LH, you are correct in that we did get a bit off topic in our suggestions of up-and-coming replacement action heros, and I would never dream to bring up Bale as an American action hero -- I know he's not American, thank you. May I remind you that you brought up Muniz ****shudder**** thanks for that . I'll take JB's Franco over Muniz hands, feet, everything down! Still, I stand by my suggestion of Steven Straight. He's a hopeful for me. He definately had the glare/scary down as Warren Peace in Sky High. I hope he doesn't disappoint in the future. ***fingers and toes crossed***

[The Movie Mark]

Fair enough.

[FieryMaid]

So, anyone besides Franco that you would suggest as an up-and-coming action hero?

[The Movie Mark]

fierymaid said:

So, anyone besides Franco that you would suggest as an up-and-coming action hero?

Well, I'm not really ready to label Franco an action hero on the rise. He still has some growing up to do.

I still think The Rock has huge potential, but like you said - he just hasn't yet delivered the way the classic heroes have. There's still time, he just needs the right vehicle.

And just watch - No Country for Old Men will likely be huge for Brolin. Give him a lead role in a big screen, Tombstone-esque Western and it's game on.